SHoE: Episode 147 – “Upgrade/Charade”
We’ve got a huge episode to make up for being a week behind (that will also line us up with Salvation being our 150th episode) with some amazing surprises awaiting you inside. We’ve got two special guests to help us cover the last two weeks worth of episodes, plus lots of news surrounding the end of the season, the DVD release of the ninth season, full discussions on ‘Upgrade’ and ‘Charade’ and lots of spoilers at the end for the last three episodes of the season. Join us, won’t you?
Hoping this will be up on Itunes so that I can listen on my Ipod later on today when I go jogging. Thanks for getting this up!
It’s already up, I’m downloading it right now!
@ MJ I can’t jog when I listen, I have to keep stopping due to excessive laughter…..then I get a pain in my side…
I can’t wait to get home to download!
Can’t wait to get home, get on my treadmill and start listening! Then, watch the next episode of Smallville. This makes this Friday one of the best! Thanks Steve and Derek!
Amazing episode guys, probably my favorite SHoE episode, and well worth the wait.
B.A.G. was excellent, and the opening bit was hilariously awkward. I find it ironic that he doesn’t watch his episodes, yet he still has a great grasp of who Metallo is. His criticism of the episode was spot-on, it was great hearing him be so honest about where he wanted to take Corben and where they did take him in this. Hopefully he gets a third appearance and his vision can be used more. That final scene that got cut better be on the Blu-Ray, it sounds like a very interesting scene when compared to where Clark is from an emotional standpoint.
Damian was a great surprise. I agree that Charade got better with a second viewing. Actually, hearing you three talk about it, I want to go watch again. I think they’ve found a great, fresh spin on the iconic couple with Lois understanding Clark’s dilemma. All the spoilers and info about the upcoming episodes has me really looking forward to the next couple of weeks.
Thanks for all the hard work guys
Envisioning CB and BAG as their characters Metallo and Zod, hanging out, texting (hopefully still signed cryptically with the letter Z), and playing golf during BAG’s comments was far too amusing.
BAG doing Walkin was HILARIOUS!!!
BAG seems like such a great guy. I’m interested in hearing what he has to say. I liked what he did in “Upgrade” but I’m curious as to what his reaction was.
I thought “Charade” was brilliant the first time around. It got even better the more I watched it but I was positive I thought it was brilliantly written, acted and directed the first time through. I was thrilled to see two episodes in a row focus so much on Clark’s perspective. First, his relationship with Zod and second, his relationship with Lois. As much as I love BAG though, I thought Charade as the superior episode. (And from the reviews I’ve seen around the web I wasn’t the only one.) Actually, from what I can tell, “Charade” got the best reviews across the web from places like the Superman homepage and various other publications since “Absolute Justice” aired.
Best Podcast EVER!!!! BAG Best Guest Ever!!!! That opening was probably the funniest thing ever. Loved BAG Damian and even Prof. Bailey great job on all fronts. Awesome EP =D
So I was looking for a clip from “Freddie” to find the clip where Freddie Prize Jr. and BAG were doing their Walken impressions, but I couldn’t find it. So I’m putting a link to a random clip only b/c I used to watch the show, and I thought BAG was amazing in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX-ufyHLSnE&feature=related
Finished listening. I loved the Prof, BAG, and Damian.
I really enjoyed the Charade discussion because I wasn’t really that excited the first time I watched the episode. After having watched it again and listening to your conversation about it, I really am way more happy about the episode. And GEEZ, you guys talking about what is to come in the last 3 episodes made me sooo excited!!!
Seriously great job on this episode Derek and Steve. I enjoyed the heck out of it!
I just finished listening to this ep. on the Zune Marketplace website, first of all Steve, Brian, and Derek together finally… one word: awesome. Especially the opening, maybe the best opening to a podcast in SHoE’s almost four year history. I was cracking up when Brian and Steve were bringing up the specifics of their “friendship contract” LOL. And the “nude on a desert island” scenario. I’m glad to hear that Brian shared some of our views on the ep. the fact that he thought Metallo returning should have had considerably a lot more to do and if he comes back, he would like to hear the story material before he signs on. Not that I’m bashing Brian and Kelly or any of the other writers. I just think that is a wise move.
The “Charade” part of the podcast was awesome as well. Damian always funny and always causing me to hold back laughter, because most of the time I am in public places when I listen to the podcast. I’m glad Derek and I are on the same wavelength in terms of thinking that “Charade” was the “Bulletproof” of this season.
I have said this several times on the comments on the website. @MJ @Natasha you ladies know this, that I was not totally on board with Kal-El and Lois at first and I’m glad the guys’ agree with when the writers began exploring “the triangle” in a fresh way that totally put me on board fully for their love relationship. I believe it is the best version of “The Triangle” ever done. I believe this because of three main reasons: It puts Kal-El in a situation that he has never been in any medium in terms of Lois understanding the need for the dual identity and Kal-El thinking “will me just being me and not ‘The Blur’ me, be enough for this woman?” Second reason: Like the guys’ said on the podcast it gives Lois a depth that I don’t believe we have seen in any medium before. Thirdly, it shows both Kal-El and Lois emotional strive and fear and ultimately their humanity about falling in love. Which I think is the truest to real life we have ever gotten in the mythology even more so than “Lois & Clark Season 3.”
Great podcast.
Well, I’m still of the camp that thinks anyone the Clark/Superman/Lois portrayal is nothing short of brilliant. No other Superman medium has done it in a way that BOTH Clark/Superman and Lois Lane come off in a good light and that you sympathize with both characters. It puts them on equal footing, it makes the Superman/Lois relationship something other than romantic, thereby not diminishing Lois’ love for Clark and making Lois look like a hero (that doesn’t need a bionic suit). And more importantly for me, it makes Clark NOT look like a jerk, gives a voice to his reasons for not telling Lois, and does it so that Lois UNDERSTANDS why he didn’t tell her sooner.
In other words, I placed Charade among the MYTHOS episodes and think it’s one of the best of the series because it just got pretty much everything right when it comes to THIS aspect of mythos/canon. I love my comics, but Smallville just upped the ante with Charade. I only hope that future re-tellings of the Superman story take this idea of the Triangle and adapt it to the uber-canon.
Great podcast..very funny and interesting!BAG is just the cool guy!Glad the most of us agree that the crazy..Me,Myself and Lois triangle has been presented or explored the best way ever..some of us @Natasha have agreed on that already before!
Actually crazy me,myself&lois triangle would be like Clark paranoid on silver K: “Lois.,have you been talking to ME on the phone again..you have,haven’t you.,and behind my back!!What have I told you about that,you know I hate myself and I’m gonna kick my ass if you don’t stop talking to me!!”
Lois:Please don’t,don’t touch you’re ass..calm down now..don’t worry YOURSELF..,I never really liked YOU anyway!
Kidding aside..things are really starting to happen to roll in SV..everything and everyone is fireing up for the epic finale and all the major players are in on it.,are in the loop.,except for poor Lois!
I mean she understands and everything that we already said,but basically she’s in the eye of the storm,especially now that Zod is out there really hurting people,and doesn’t even know the half of it!
I would tell her,she is in danger people..I mean fictional me in the fictional Smallville universe would tell her..can you imagine that…I would come off as more crazy than that doctor Chisolm or whatever his name was in ‘Conspiracy’!!
Look Lois there’s something you need to know..your boyfriend Clark is actually the Blur,but he’s not just Blur..in fact his name isn’t even Clark,it’s Kal-el and he’s an alien from another planet that actually blew up in a galaxy far away,thousands of years ago and now the evil flying clones of the long dead people from that planet are here on Earth fighting a war to dominate the world with..these coloured chess figure people…oh and your cousin Chloe is the Watchtower..!
It would be like Lois in Wonderland man! She’d definitly be like..this guy is seriously on acid,somebody call the doctor ASAP!
But really..we are coming to that point when she seriously needs to know because up to this point she basically knows that there’s a blur out there chasin’ the bad guys, plus some beats and pieces aside…She’ll probably whitness something,thus finding out..,or not..that may well be one of the cliffhangers for the next season!
The opening was absolutely hysterical. BAG is a real trooper. Long live contractually based friendships!
First podcast I’d listened to and I loved it. I’ve never really been exposed to much of Brian Austin Green apart from Smallville and he seems like an awesome guy. He had me laughing my head off! Really great stuff. My wife and I are going to rent out the Sara Conner DVDs just to check Brian out and also try to hunt down anything else he’s been in.
Thanks for being on the podcast Brain. At the very least you got a couple of new fans out of it.
Great episode, loved the opening bit with BAG. I would love to hear the full episode. Having an episode with both BAG and Damien made the wait all worth it.
Did anyone else hear a lighter in the background? It was kinda distracting.
Overall great job Derek, Steve, BAG & Damien. Cannot wait for the upcoming episodes!
Cool Episode thanx !! here something u guys might like pretty funny, Pretty funny ALICIA KEYS and Jay-Z , star wars parody ! Lex posted it lol on twitter (M.R.) http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1931187
I finally got a chance to listen to this after a very busy weekend.
It as very enjoyable. It’s interesting to hear everything that BAG had to say regarding the episode and the scenes that were cut.
I’d like to think that this episode was only the middle section of John Corben’s journey on Smallville and that we will see him back before this series is over as an evolved and dangerous villian. I liked what Brian said about that last scene with Lois as being his last real scene as a man. It’s funny because as much as I understand the criticism about Corben’s role in this episode….if he were to come back now as a true villian it would be even MORE heartbreaking and dramatic due to his kind nature with Lois in this episode.
The friendship contract was very funny.
Damien had some very good insights on the episode. I think he made many good points. First off, he made an EXCELLENT point about the episodes that provide essential character development and how neccessary those types of episodes are on a show like Smallville. It’s nice to finally see everyone understanding and acknowledging that an episode is not “filler” (and should not be labeled as such) if it enhances and develops the characters in some way. Many times, it’s the character driven episodes that make everything worthwhile. The big epic battles in Clark’s life are meaningless if we don’t know what he is fighting for.
I think Derek made a good point about “drama” in a relationship and that not all drama is bad. Again, very important. Derek reaffirmed something that several of us have been saying on here for weeks now. All relationships have tough times now and then. Even healthy relationships and happy marriages have tough days or days when you really just aren’t sure how to make it work. If you love one another you keep fighting, you keep trying to make it work. And that’s what we are seeing with Clark and Lois here. But drama is not always a bad thing. It can be a very good thing because it forces issues to the surface.
I echo everyone else’s sentiments about the incredible way this show has handled the Triangle for 2. The relationship between Clark and Lois has never had this much depth in any previous incarnation of the Superman story. We’ve never really seen it play out with this much complexity and raw emotion. It’s just fantastic. They’ve done something so beautiful with this love story that no other version of the Superman story has managed before. Having Clark fall in love with Lois at first sight is all well and good….but iet’s face it….it’s not very realistic. What is more realistic is this idea that these two have been in each other’s lives for 6 years now and have slowly come to terms with this attraction and feelings that they have for each other. It’s been a slow burn that has now reached the point where it’s just boiling over and ready to explode. It IS way more mature than what we’ve seen before on this show. The truth is that in the early seasons Clark and Lois were NOT being mature with each other. There was a clear attraction there in “Crusade” and “Gone” but the two of them reacted to it by insulting one another and trying to act like they couldn’t stand each other. Which is basically what children do on the playground. It’s like a little boy chasing a little girl and pulling her ponytail for attention. So the progression between them over the last 6 years has been from immature behavior to finally admitting how they feel and having the courage to go after it in a more mature and adult way and confront these problems head on. I’m excited to see how it all plays out through the next two episodes.
As for Derek’s question about why so many people don’t like Chloe and Oliver: I can only speak for myself. I don’t hate them per se. I’m not out there bashing them or anything. I don’t really care enough to do that nor do I like ship wars. And it’s not because I’m a Green Arrow purist per se. For me, the reasons are 3 fold. The first reason is because I have honestly been struggling all season (and some of last season ) with many of Chloe’s actions. That’s been clear from my posts on here. I adore Allison Mack. I think she’s awesome. But I’ve been struggling with Chloe. I just want her to genuinely apologize for the things she has done. It bothers me intensely that we have never heard a true apology from her this year. If she showed some true remorse for the spying and the coldness towards Clark….I would forgive the character. Second, I watch Smallville to watch Clark Kent’s story unfold. I’m interested in everything that has to do with Clark and his growth. I’m interested in his heroics, his friendships, his joy at the Daily Planet, his relationship with the villians and yes, his relationship with Lois. If a plotline doesn’t enhance his growth in some way…I find it to be a waste of time. You mentioned Lana and Jason and Lois and Grant on the podcast: I hated those relationships too. BUT–I also don’t remember the producers making a huge deal out of those relationships interviews etc. Lastly, I have struggled with the Chollie because I just think too much of it has happened offscreen. I don’t see the development between them at all. I just find it funny because so many people out there were so quick to jump all over Clark and Lois getting together and calling it “rushed.” Well, Clark and Lois had been having these special moments and scenes together that foreshadowed their attraction and friendship for 6 years now starting with Lois’ first episode on the show, “Crusade.” Hours and hours of screentime together showing the slow build. Now, many people missed it because they were paying more attention to the other plots like Lex and Clana etc. But the buildup was there. So I guess I just find it kind of weird that the same people who were criticizing Clois for 6 freaking years of buildup have no problem with Chloe and Oliver having this romance that seemingly came out of nowhere over the span of like 4 episodes. But honestly….it doesn’t really bother me that much. I don’t really care about the relationship enough to get upset about it or talk about it. If people enjoy it and think it’s cool….that’s fine by me. I just personally don’t enjoy it. But to each their own.
Thought Steve made an interesting point about waiting for things to go south with Clark and Lois. Damien brought up Clana and the fact that they were never happy together. I think Damien hit the nail on the head. The reason the Clois drama is so good is becuase we have actually seen them be happy together. We’ve seen Clark happier and more care free with Lois than he has been in a LONG LONG time. So it makes it all the more dramatic when the rug gets pulled out from under them. With Lana, Clark was ALWAYS unhappy. He was always moping. We never really saw them happy together. It was difficult to figure out WHY they even wanted to be together because they seemingly didn’t even know why they loved each other. So the drama didn’t have as much power. It’s BECAUSE we’ve seen Clark and Lois so happy that this feels more powerful and real. We’ve seen that they are clearly very good together and make each other very happy. It was a good strategy on the part of the PTB to keep them happy for a while so that we could really feel the drama of them dealing with his secret.
Great podcast. Many interesting comments made.
Hey guys, great work on the Upgrade/Charade podcast! Firstly, please try and ignore the more cynical fans on Twitter-you guys do such amazing work for this show, and for us fans. Loved hearing Brian, and it was fantastic to get Damian, Derek, and Steve back in one room together.
Quick Note: The point of whether or not Chloe continued on with school was brought up, and just to clarify, I recall Grant Gabriel mentioning that Chloe was taking Journalism night classes at Met. U at the start of Season 7 (right after Lois got hired, and there was that scene where Chloe feels a bit thrown after Grant told her that she’s going to have to up her game if she wants to stay at the Planet).
So from that, I think we can gather that Chloe DID finish college-off screen of course, but there it is…she took night classes and presumably finished sometime b/t Seasons 7 and 8.
I also recall Al/Miles saying in Season 6 that all college was happening off screen, and that they wanted to focus on other stories, so I suppose we can assume that Clark/Lana finished up, but we were never given a mention of that, except with Chloe.
Keep up the great work guys! I’m going to start to comment here more often!
This was entertaining. Great interview guys.
Oh and Chloe and Tess are called Chless not Chloess.
Not to be picky…but it takes more than 4 years to get a college degree if you are going part time. Honestly, I don’t think Chloe graduated. The last we heard she was going part-time in early season 7. So unless she has been taking classes between Watchtower duty and hiding Davis in the basement…I’m thinking her journalism classes stopped when she left the Dp. Even if she went full time (which she didn’t) the soonest she would realistically garduate would be this year. I think the show dropped the college thing for all the characters years ago. They are all drop outs. Its a bummer..but true. I’m not trying to pick on Chloe here but let’s not distort the show canon or what it takes to realistically graduate from college.
@kathleen,I agree..I myself am a part time student,I have a job,so I understand..then again Chloe is this super genious at everything she does..,as for the rest of them I distinctly remember Lois attending college for a short time and then being kicked out,don’t quite remember when or why and Clark dropped out after his father died cause he didn’t want to leave his mother running the farm on her own and being alone,he wanted to help there.
Oh and Lana dropped out after the hole pregnancy/marriage with Lex thing.
Re: College Thing
I think it’s safe to say that they are all equal opportunity college drop outs, but I don’t understand why it’s that big of a deal who graduated what. I graduated college and I have a sucky job (for now). There was one point in comics canon where Lois wasn’t a college gradute but was able to get a job at the Planet based SOLELY on her talents, so why can’t that be the case for Smallville? In other words, let’s not nitpick about it because the particular fanbase that harps on that are the types we try not to associate ourselves with here on SHoE.
Natasha, I agree with you. It’s not a big deal. I think Kathleen was only trying to correct the person above who stated that Chloe had graduated. (Which most likely isn’t true.) The reality is that Al and Miles never considered the education of any of their characters to be of much importance. That includes, Clark, Lana, Lois AND Chloe. If Al and Miles had cared that much then the whole college plotline would have been a bigger deak. But it wasn’t. Now, we could go round and round about whether we agree with Al and Miles’ decision or not. There are people that might argue that it was a mistake for Al and Miles to not focus more on Clark’s education. The fact that Clark and Lois didn’t attend college has been used as a means of attack by many fans of this show. The reality is that none of the characters graduated college. That was a choice the showrunners made so that they could focus on other plots. It was never meant as some kind of greater statement on their intelligence or ability or worth in society. What’s done is done at this point and harping on it or trying to use it against any of the characters is pointless. All the characters on this show have more than made up for their lack of classroom time with real life experiences that have taught them different but equally valuable lessons.
For what it’s worth let’s not forget that Tom Welling never attended college either. Is this a reflection on this intelligence? No. Almost every person who meets him comments on how smart and perceptive he is. He’s proven himself to not only be a very talented and relatable actor but also a talented director, producer and businessman with his own production company. I had a Double Major in College and I had a Doctorate by the time I was 24 but I would be the first person to openly say that there are different types of education in this world and that one is not neccessarily more valuable than another.
Kathleen said she wasn’t trying to pick on Chloe,or anything like that,but rather clarify certain facts about the show,nor did anybody imply anything about characters inteligence in connection with their education.
Of course that the showrunners didn’t want to explore those aspects,because it’s not a show about it,nor is it important for characters development..even when they were in high school.
And as for Clark,in his studies and training with Jor-El,together with the ability of speed reading and perfect memory..by the time he’s superman he’ll learn much more than he would in any Earth college or University..not to mention experience he allready went through!!
@James…when I brought up the whole education vs. intelligence debate I was referring more to the idea that has floated around Smallville fandom that Clark and Lois are somehow less intelligent or qualified because they didn’t attend college. I apologize if I didn’t make that more clear.
One of you guys were wondering why people were having problems with Chloe and Oliver being together and I will admit I initially had some problems with it. I don’t mind them being together now but maybe some people were in the same boat that I was in.
It started with my disapproval of the Chloe/Jimmy relationship and the fact that I shipped her with two characters – one pairing was my otp (but I knew it was a one season deal), the other was the future with the ‘happily ever after’ theme song and all that. I know friends of mine started shipping Chloe/Oliver together ever since she went “WOW” when she first saw him.
The reason I never liked Chloe/Jimmy was because initially he was the guy who took her virginity and it took him two years to call. In fact he never did. The relationship had all the trappings of a high school romance (gifts, dates, etc) but no depth. Chloe never confided in Jimmy the way she confided in Clark. All that time her heart was with Clark but she knew he would never love her the same way she loved him. And there was Jimmy there so what the heck.
I believed that Chloe believed that by being with Jimmy she could get rid of her feelings of loneliness even by taking all the crap that he gave her. And even Jimmy was frustrated in the relationship because he couldn’t understand the connection she had with Clark. In Traveler (season 7) we have Chloe professing to Jor-El her love for Clark. A few episodes later in Sleeper, we see her kissing Jimmy. I mean, really?
Then comes Apocalypse which in relation to Chloe’s future I thought was gold. Clark wishes he was never born and Jor-El sends him to an alternate timeline where he never existed. So he meets Chloe and she doesn’t know him. Ironically but not surprisingly she and Lana aren’t friends. Clark learns that Chloe is engaged and assumes it is Jimmy. But no. It’s to a Metropolis cop who the fans of that pairing call George. And that was my “happily ever after pairing” for Chloe.
So after Smallville crushed my otp (I know it was going to end within one season but they literally stomped on it and lightswitched another relationship into an all time favourite lovestory), in season 9 I heard about the return of Carlo Marks. He played “George” and I was thrilled that he would be in Chloe’s life. The entire Chloe/George fandom was literally buzzing. Then came the Warrior episode and I’m sure most people know by now what happened there.
But I don’t have a problem with Chloe and Oliver as individual characters so I prefer not to bash the couple. Too much energy is put into hating.
@MJ,no need to apologize to me..I wasn’t aware of those floating ideas but now that I know of them,I can only say that’s just silliness.
@Kathleen, MJ, and James: Oh, I understand. I was agreeing with Kathleen (and all 3 of you), but I just didn’t want us to devolve to the level of even trying to argue the topic because of how fan wars can be. It also wasn’t an attack on the original person that brought it up, because s/he was one of the few to have brought it up in a respectable way. But at the same time, yes it is used to try to “prove” something about the characters involved as if having a college degree makes one better than those that find success without one.
Since I just watched Charade about three hours ago and just now finished listening to the podcast, I feel very late to the game. But that said, I really enjoyed hearing Brian’s thoughts and the opening bit was pure joy and win.
Though honestly, the best part of the episode was listening to Steve, Derek and Damian interact. Damian is surely my “new best friend” since he makes SHoE (a show that I enjoy immensely) that much better.