SHoE: Episode 144 – “Conspiracy”
It’s going to be a long five weeks leading up to the next episode of Smallville, so let’s make the time go faster with a little SHoE. This week Derek and Joe from The 10th Wonder discuss the spring finale episode, ‘Conspiracy’. There’s also really big news involving Smallville’s 10th season return and even more headlines and discussion awaiting you inside!
Joe, in a way, I’m not sure I’m totally understanding you. So I’m sorry if I misinterpret you. (Again!)
I will say this: I do think that Clark’s actions with Lois are so different from the way we’ve seen him behave with women in previous seasons that it might seem jarring. BUT–I think that’s the point. The Clark Kent of previous seasons would never have been mature enough to just flat out tell a woman the he wanted to be with her nor would he have been mature enough to just grab a woman he had feelings for and kiss her. For 8 years on Smallville, Clark Kent was the pursued. He was almost embodying the stereotypical “woman” role in that women desired him. Women asked him out. Women hit on him. He was put in comprosing situations by women. The only time he was EVER the aggressor with a woman was when he was drugged on Red-K.
Then you cut to Season 9 and all of a sudden you’ve got a Clark Kent how is actively asking Lois out on dates. Going after her aggressively. Grabbing her and kissing her and clarifying in very certain terms that he wants to be with her. Now, you could say that came out of nowhere. BUT–I would argue that if you look closely at Clark’s emotional development over the course of the last season it not only makes a lot of sense but is also part of the natural progression of his maturity from boy to man. He’s growing up. He’s learning that it’s OK to go after what he wants. That it’s ok to be confident and not just to remain passive at all times.
One of Clark’s most defining character traits for almost 9 years is that he tends to worry about other people’s needs over his own. He never just goes after what he wants. But this season we’ve seen Clark finally start to stand on his own two feet. He’s standing up to people like Chloe and Oliver in a mature way when he disagrees with them. He acknowledged his mistakes to both Chloe and Oliver at the beginning of the season and apologized for his behavior—but he didn’t dwell on it or wallow in guilt as maybe he would have done in previous season. He let go of the dream of Lana and opened himself up to the idea of truly moving on. This is all real progress for Clark as a man. It started with his relationship with Lois but this growth is a part of every facet of his life—including his hero persona. This is a Clark Kent who is learning to stand on his own two feet and to stand up for what he wants.
From a specific episode standpoint I think the dialouge also makes a ton of sense. In “Savior” Lois returned from being missing for 3 weeks. Clark sees her on the train and we see from his perspective that he’s struggling to cut himself off from her. All of the feelings that he had bottled up all last year rose the surface. This continued in “Metallo” when he admitted with Chloe that he couldn’t stay away from her and he was drawn back the Daily Planet to be next to her again and to protect her. In “Rabid” we saw a very subtle but very important moment where Clark literally put Lana on the shelf and was ready to move on with Lois. The stopping of the arm punch was important symbolism there. In “Echo” he asked her out on a date and while he then had to miss said date, he still made sure to imply at the end that he wanted to try it again. In “Crossfire” Clark asked Lois out again and showed Lois how he felt in kissing her. In “Idol” Lois officially realized that the person she wanted to be with was Clark and not the Blur. (Fitting right in with the modern interpretation of the comics where Lois chooses Clark over superman.) In “Pandora”–Clark is trapped inside Lois’ memories and sees in vivid detail how sad and lost he felt without her after she went missing for a year. After he comes out of Lois’ mind, he realizes that he wants to be with her and tells her so in clear terms. We left for the hiatus with a clear indication that they were dating. No mind games. No immature childish behavior.
In “Disciple” we see that they are officially dating but that Lois wants to take it slow. And that last few episodes have basically been a continuation of that theme. They’ve only been dating for a short time period. It seems that they both care deeply about the other and are trying to figure out how to pursue the relationship further. I honestly don’t understand how anything about that seems to have come out of nowhere. To me, it makes complete sense with everything we’ve seen onscreen for the past two years with these two. I appreciate the show presenting this relationship as adult and mature in a stark contrast to the never ending melodrama that we endured with Clark and Lana over the years where NOTHING was never mature. The way it went down with Clark and Lois is, in my opinion, much more true to life when two adults decide they want to date.
So both in theme for Clark as a character and in actual dialouge, ,I just don’t really understand how you could argue that anything betweeen them came out of nowhere. If anything, I think it was the opposite. But that’s ok. We can agree to disagree. Different opinions make life interesting. But I just thought I would throw my perspective in on why I personally disagreed with your comments.
@ MJ and her relly long post.
AMEN! You actually made me tear up.
STEREK AND CLOIS FOREVER!
Has anyone seen that new Tron trailer…it’s awesome!
@ MJ again
I meant the 1st really long comment, the one from this morning
One last thing….and I mean this in a positive way and not in any way to criticize you at all Joe. I really appreciate you coming on here to clarify and discuss these things with us. But you mentioned a few times on the podcast scenes with Clark and Lois that you thought were a waste because they were “shipper stuff.” Now, I’m not going to get into the whole shipper argument on here becuase I think most people on here have made it clear why that term bothers them and why the implications of a comment like that bother them. I merely suggest this as food for thought.
The character development that some of us have talked about on here regarding Clark’s growth as a man with Lois in those scenes is the kind of stuff that can be easily overlooked if you categorize all of Clark and Lois’ scenes (or episodes that feature them heavily) as “shipper stuff” and deem it not as important to pay close attention to. It doesn’t mean that I’m right and you’re wrong or that you’re wrong and I’m right. Everyone watches this show for different things. However, I think it’s worth noting that sometimes you can miss important character growth for Clark or extremely consistent emotional story telling when you deem certain scenes as fluff or shipper stuff and as being less important to the overall arc. A lot of Clark’s personal maturity and character growth from boy to man has come in his scenes with Lois this year. And if you deem those scenes somehow less worthy or important….you miss the serious implications of it for the character.
Just food for thought.
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to us on here and to clarify your points. It’s been really great to have an open discussion about this and talk about why we disagree. I think Brian would probably approve. :)
@ Steve
It made me crap my FRIGGIN’ pants!
“It’s just a game!”
“Not anymore.” *BOOM*
F.Y.I Serinda Swann (Zatanna) is in it, if anyone cares.
@Sarita, I’m the queen of long winded posts. It comes from being a fast typer and being an English major a few years back who over analyzes everything to death. Sorry for subjecting you to so many posts.
Glad you liked the first one this morning. :)
@ Steve again
I just watched it again, and crapped my pants, again!
I FREAKING LOVE THE NEW TRON TRAILER!
In response to MJ (sorry for my late reply) – Thank you for your kind words! It’s great to be here : ) Oh, and I really liked your posts about Clark and Lois relationship! I guess we share similar views concerning their dynamic :)
Conspiracy is not one my favourite episodes, however, there were certain elements that I thoroughly enjoyed while watching it.
Let’s start from Zod – just how brilliant is Callum Blue? :)
I really liked the scenes that Zod shared with Clark, especially the final scene. Now, I read (on other fan forums) that some people can’t stand the way how Callum Blue speaks (I guess they’re irritated by his accent or maybe diction?) and his acting (it is seen as overly dramatic, for example his “IN YOUR FACE” moments). I don’t have a problem with that, because for me those are the characteristic features of Callum Blue’s ZOD – he puts an act, he’s arrogant, proud and “in your face”– and the way he speaks and moves (his whole presence) only confirms that. Callum’s Zod greatly differs from the Zod I know from Superman movies, which is great by the way!
Just think about the scene on the rooftop: Zod pretends that he is hurt and that his wounds are not completely healed (oh yes, here he is “the Great Pretender” – “a changed man”!). We can see that he’s lying, but Clark doesn’t, which is understandable, because Clark believes in people and that they can change. So, when I watched the scene in which Zod delivers his speech to Clark, it reminded me of a solo theatrical performance – kneel before ZOD! It was like watching some kind of Shakespearean exchange between the two characters on stage. The audience knows that Zod is lying – he is the villain, and he doesn’t particularly hide it. Am I saying that Zod is totally evil? – no, I think he’s power driven and his craving for power is his Achilles’ heel, which will bring his doom.
Regarding Zod flying and Clark being earthbound…
I’ve been patiently waiting for Clark to fly – so I can wait a little longer. Zod flying – I expected that – it wasn’t a big surprise when it happened…But I do believe that when Clark finally flies it will be a magnificent scene (I’m hoping it will be in 200 episode, but who knows what will happen until then). Now, I’m not sure if I agree with the notion that Clark doesn’t embrace flying because he is afraid of being too powerful, and that is the reason why he chooses not to fly. I believe that the reason why Clark hasn’t flown yet is because he hasn’t found the balance between his alien and human side – when he finally finds that balance, he will be able to fly (but that is just my opinion). Or maybe he will fly naturally, without being aware of it – you know, for example we will see him flying in order to save somebody?
The scene in which Clark saved Zod was also great. In my opinion, he had no other choice – he is the future Superman, and he couldn’t behave any other way. Again, I’ve read some arguments made by people who attacked Clark because he saved Zod. In their opinion he made a “stupid” mistake. I say to that: Superman who doesn’t save life is not Superman – this is who he is, he is pro-life. The similar discussion was taking place when Clark destroyed Zod’s towers – some people believed (or maybe wanted to believe) that by destroying the towers Clark was responsible for the death of people inside of the building, and lined up around it. And once again, I say to that – really? Do you watch Smallville at all? Do people honestly believe that Clark would be able to do it? to kill?
And finally Chloe-Oliver
I’m not interested in their rushed, out of nowhere relationship, because I know it won’t last – and I don’t care about them being together. I also don’t like when they keep secrets from Clark – way to go, team Justice! – not! :((
They really don’t trust each other… and I expected more from Oliver…Come on Green Arrow! – show more support for Clark? ehhhh…Honestly, I don’t know what to think about it… I just don’t want to see Clark being blamed for everything in the end…
I am ready for the Eclipse trailer
Re: Clark flying
Clark flying or not flying doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is viewers of the show making comments regarding Clark’s mental state because he doesn’t fly. I love what Derek said about Clark not flying: it’s not because he can’t, because clearly he can, but that he doesn’t necessarily WANT to because he’s afraid of becoming too powerful. This is the argument I’ve been making for years because it’s the one that makes the most sense wrt this particular incarnation of Clark Kent who has spent years trying to be as human as possible. I’ve always stated that he won’t fly because he’s afraid of losing that one last grip on humanity. He can handwave the heat vision, the x ray vision, freeze breath, superspeed and strength, bulletproofness, and everything else because he’s seen meteor infected people and metahumans do pretty freaky things. But he’s never seen anyone other than aliens fly. Now, while he’s beginning to finally embrace his Kryptonian heritage, he still considers himself of Earth.
@ Joanna: I actually think your stance on Clark’s flying and Derek’s stance are the same thing. Finding his balance between Kryptonian and Human seems analogous to fearing becoming too powerful IMO. Once he finds that balance, he doesn’t have to fear that power. Clark’s afraid of swinging to far to the left or right; not using his powers is no longer an option for him, but neither is becoming a full time alien hero. It’s why he reconnected with Lois in Savior. It’s why he returned to his human life in Metallo. In other words, I think the “too powerful” thing is subconscious or implicit, but at the same time Clark has to find that balance, which is the more conscious or explicit theme of the season.
(This was not supposed to be this long)
Also @ Joanne, I do agree that Clark saving Zod was something he absolutely should have done. I think a good number of us on this site (at least the ones that comment here) agree with that decision regardless of the consequences. But I also agree that if Clark is somehow made out to be the blame for whatever crap Chloe and Oliver pull later this season, I will f***ing explode. And I’ll let the PTB know about it.
But I’m remaining optimistic :)
I agree that Steve & Derek are the Bert & Ernie, the Han & Chewie, the Bo & Luke Duke of podcasting but I don’t see them as the Batman & Robin more the Bruce Wayne & Alfred Pennyworth (in particular Nolan version).
Anyway, TRON!!!!
@MJ -you said:
“mentioned a few times on the podcast scenes with Clark and Lois that you thought were a waste because they were “shipper stuff.”
Timestamps please! ;) – I never said those things. Wait… Did I? I don’t even recall using the word Shipper. Although I don’t remember what I did this morning either so I could have said it.
What I was trying to say in my previous comment is when they first used the word “dating” on the show I remember doing a double take. Not because I’m against it, I just felt like I missed the moment where it became “official.” I guess that was it!
Tron! Eclipse! I like trailers…
Joe, yes you did. I’m so sorry I don’t have timestamps right now. I can try and pull up the podcast at some point if that helps and give you time stamps. But you were talking about “Persuasian” and you specifically said that the stuff with Clark and Lois was just “shipper stuff” and you brushed it off. It’s totally cool if you don’t remember. I’m like you in that I often can’t remember what I had for breakfast this morning. But you did say it. I totally get that you might have disliked “Persuasian” but my point was that sometimes when you brush off that stuff as “shipper stuff” you wind up missing some character development. “Persuasian” was rather silly in a sense. I’ll totally give you that. But the silly stuff in that episode actually did have a deeper meaning. It revealed a lot of Lois’ deep feeings of inadequacy and the idea that she’s never had a real home or been part of a family and knew nothing about “family time.” She actually questioned if she would be able to make Clark happy because of her limited experience with family. These were themes that we’ve seen glimpses of over the years but this brought it to the forefront. So while I will totally give you that some of it might look silly from the outside….there was value to that stuff in terms of character growth.
The episode where they became official was in “Pandora.” Clark asked Lois if they could be a couple and she agreed. He promised her they could take it slow and “do it right.” Then they held hands in the elevator.
I think the Eciplise trailer comes on Friday? Did I hear that right? I saw the 10 second promo today. It was extremely dramatic. haha.
For Joe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBNEv12Qym8
Maybe this was the moment that you missed prior to Disciple. Either way, it’s been great chatting with you. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
@ MJ…I have so much love for you, lol. I love a woman that backs up discussion with evidence, LOL.
@MJ- Ahh, you’re right that is when it became official. See I can be wrong! :)
Now…. I never said “Shipper stuff”!! (those are playful exclamation points, not angry) – I didn’t like “Persuasion” but I still don’t think I used the term “Shipper” – I don’t even like that word…. Shame on me if I did.
Now… You’re going to hate me for this one (it’s ok). I would LOVE to believe that everything has a deeper meaning, but… I’m sorry, I just can’t. I love how you can extract that from those scenes and maybe you’re right but at some point it starts to straddle the apologetic line. That’s definitely not a bad thing, I think it’s awesome. I really really do. I for one can understand from being a devoted fan of Heroes. Give me anything from Heroes that people don’t agree with or don’t understand (almost anything) and I’ll come up with a way to make it proper and fitting. I don’t even try, it’s just a natural reaction. On the flip side it could be a subconscious thing that the writers do from being involved with certain characters for so long but I find it a little hard to believe that they wrote those scenes (like the Lois homemaker scenes) with that back story in mind. I honestly commend you for getting that out of the scenes and it makes me view them differently. See, now I’m starting to think it was intentional! You’ve convinced me.
Regarding PERSUASION: In the episode, Lois was making her best attempt to create a home based on the examples she’s seen in the media and in her time living and getting to know Martha Kent. Donna Reed is your standard 50s sitcom housewife. A regular June Cleaver, if you will. As Lois made clear in this episode, she doesn’t know the first thing about family time or dinners at home, so it makes sense that her only reference point is some cliched stereotype commonly found on late night reruns. As a girl who grew up without a real home or a mother, it’s not surprising to me that Lois would crave a home and the permanence it evokes. She never had that growing up, but she knows Clark did. She wants it, and she wants to give it to Clark, so having Chloe set her doubts about her ability to achieve that aflame was bound to have a seismic emotional effect.
I also appreciated that Lois wasn’t calling the notion of a “traditional woman” pathetic or mocking those who fit that mold. Rather, she was calling her attempt to live up to that ideal pathetic. If she appeared to act like a child, it’s worthwhile to recall that Lois lost her mother when she was 6 years old, so for her to be taken back to that scared girl who felt like she had lost the possibility for home and family forever, is both logical and heart-wrenching. Indeed, I was very touched by Lois’ emotional displays throughout. She, to use Lois own words, “spilled [her] guts,” and we got to see Clark respond beautifully to her vulnerabilities with his persistent and sincere reassurances. It rivaled the Clois scene in the rain in RABID for me, because in both scenes Lois was a noticeable wreck, and in both scenes Clark demonstrates how he won’t let Lois go no matter what.
How comforting it must have been for Lois to feel that after she felt cast aside in her father’s esteem as lesser than her sister Lucy, and the weak link in the chain of command? This is a woman who we know has been left without a home because the General wouldn’t let her return to the base after being kicked out of college, teaching Lois that home can be denied if you screw up, and love may very well be conditional. Then there’s those times like in HYDRO/JUSTICE or BRIDE when Lois was finally feeling as if she had found something special only to have it ripped away from her because either a calling or another woman took precedence. To see Lois attempt to leave in an echo of her farewell scene in the hospital in BRIDE, only this time to see Clark reassure her, had a poignancy to me that was only heightened by the parallels to REQUIEM which aired precisely in the same spot a year prior.
Just like I felt it was interesting and important character for Clark when he was under the influence of red kryptonite in EXILE, and when Chloe transformed into Lois for a day in HEX, I also believe PERSUASION (as demonstrated above) marked some significant character development for Lois and Clark as individuals and as a couple. For Lois, any development is welcome to me considering she’s woefully behind Clark and Chloe (and Lana and Lex) in the episodes and arcs she’s been able to have on the show in years past. She’s emerging as the leading lady on the show and in Clark’s life and deserves to be treated as such.
Although they chose a silly way to do it, what happened for her character in the episode was important; since it helped her address critical issues from her past and helped both she and Clark move forward. Perhaps not everyone can see or agrees with the deeper meaning I was able to extract from the episode, and perhaps not everyone cares as much about Lois or Clois as I do, but I can’t help but think these things are important, and as a result, I cringe when others dismiss them so readily.
MJ is stealing all my lines…
I’M WITH DEREK….In agreement that I love Smallville for what it is! Yes, there are things here or there we don’t agree with in each episode, or didn’t particularly like what the writers deliver. Out of curiosity, I too get sucked in to reading and listening to all the detailed analysis, complaints, bashing, etc. etc. etc. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. In the end, I believe we should all be respectful of that. And as a fan, if you continue to support the show, just join in and be grateful that we get another year of Smallville! Because it is what it is! Peace ;-D
DEREK & JOE….First time ever listening to the podcast. Nicely done I must say. Although, you were quite funny with the rambling and distractions (love the dog singing in the background by the way), you managed to cover the episode pretty well. Thanks for sharing your opinions and clarifying some questions I had myself. Tip for Joe…try not to analyze the episodes too much, it’ll drive you bananas XD. Looking forward to hearing more. Cheers!
Tron Legacy trailer GOOD but Iron Man 2 Trailer was AWESOME. Best movie of this year. I like though that the technology has caught up to the concept of Tron. I think I will like the new one better because the effects will be up to par with the story.
Can’t wait to hear the dynamic duo doing podcasts again. STEREK!!!
Joe, go back and listen to the podcast when you guys were talking about “Persuasian.” You did say “shipper stuff.” It’s ok that you did. I don’t think you meant to be offensive. (In fact, after talking to you on here I’m SURE that you would never mean ANYTHING to be offensive.) It’s a popular phrase for people to use. But I remember cringing when you said it. I tried to find the time stamp last night for you on my Ipod but I kept going too far. But you did say it when you guys were talking about the previous episode. Derek was defending the episode due to the incredible ending and you said that the Lois/Clark stuff was just shipper stuff and you brushed it off. I just don’t want you to think that I’m just making this up.
On the one hand, I totally know what you mean about taking everything at face value with a show like Smallville. I’ve often argued on other message boards that Smallville isn’t Joss Whedon and that often times what you see is what you get. That being said, I acutually think there has been an attempt this season by the writers to have more over arching themes and meanings in a way that they didn’t in previous seasons. The idea that Clark needs to find balance between his human side and his alien side has been a running theme underneath everything since “Savior.” It’s actually pretty impressive because I don’t normally expect that kind of over arching theme from Smallville. But it’s there this season. So I commend them on that. They’ve finally got some good writers in there.
In this particular situation, I don’t even think it’s that difficult to find the meaning in it and I don’t think you need to look that far to see it. Lois Lane, throughout canon (and that includes Smallville) has always had a history of a tough family life. That’s why she forms such a bond with the Kents. This is true in the comics, in L&C and it carried through to Smallville. They’re the parents she never had. (And in fact that’s a line that comes right out of her mouth in “Commencement” when she tells Mr. and Mrs. Kent in the kitchen at the beginning of the episode that they are the parents she never had. ) Erica Durance gave an interview before the episode aired where she confirmed that Lois had a warped view of what it meant to be traditional—that she worried that she needed to be more like Martha Kent to be the woman Clark wanted. There have been tons of previous examples on this show that explicitly show the audience how insecure Lois feels about her family life. “Lucy” was probably the first example of that. Lois admitted to Clark that her father had treated more like a solider than a daugther. It was a cold household. One of the biggest moments was also in “Siren” where Lois broke down in that emotional scene with Clark after her final break up with Oliver. She admitted to Clark (because she only admits this kind of stuff to Clark even 2 years ago) that her father had been absent and that his job had come first. That she “didn’t want to be left behind one more time.” Al and Miles did a commentary on that episode and even they talked about the importance of that scene in terms of Clark and Lois’ future together and the kind of respect they would share. For long time fans who had really paid close attention to Lois’ emotional insecurities about family the scenes in “Persuasian” not only made sense but seemed necessary to address some of her issues about being a part of a real family and belonging to someone.
But it didn’t just mean something for Lois’ development. It also said a lot about how far Clark has come. Do you remember back in Season 7 when Clark was living on the farm with Lana? She was every bit the “traditional” housewife for him on the surface. She cooked perfect meals. She arranged flowers. On the surface, she was the “traditional” woman. Clark had spent his entire life bemoaning the fact that all he wanted was to be “normal’ and he finally got it in Season 7 with Lana on the farm. And yet their relationship still fell apart. It turned out that his definition of “normal” and “traditional” still didn’t mean that they were meant to be together nor could it save their doomed relatioship that was riddled with other problems.
So cut to Season 9 and now Clark is a changed man. He’s finally acting more like a man and he’s finally standing on his own two feet. He’s not bemoaning this idea anymore that he needs to be “normal.” In fact, it’s the oppposite. He’s embracing his powers. Lois starts acting like the “traditional” woman that he claimed he wanted all those years ago and he found that he wanted her back the way she was. Bad cooking and horrible housemaking skills and all. He was also able to assure her that he would be there for her and that he believed they would stay together. He wasn’t going to leave her behind like the other men had in Lois’ past. That was a huge step for Clark. Lastly, there were a ton of fans that noticed right away that the scene took place in the Loft exactly one year after “Requiem” when Clark wound up on his knees on the floor in agony over Lana. He probably never thought he’d be happy again. Yet, here he was in the exact same spot in the Loft realizing that he wanted to spend his life with someone else. That’s growth for our main character.
I’m not saying it was a perfect delivery. Personally, I didn’t entirely love the execution in “Persuasian.” I thought they could have gotten the same message across in various other ways. BUT—there was a message there.
No, I don’t hate you if you didn’t see it. There are plenty of times when you guys point something out on the podcast with Zod or the Kandorians that I totally missed because I just wasn’t looking for it. So I’m always glad to hear what you guys have to say because it helps me undersatnd new things about the episodes. I hope that we can all do that for each other. Sometimes a spade is iust a spade. But sometimes, if you’re lucky, more care has been put into it and it’s not. In this case, I’m going with the later.
Thanks again for all of your comments. I really appreciate it and I seriously have a newfound respect for you for coming on here and chatting about this with me. It was really cool.
On a random note, despite how crappy this situation started a few days ago, I’ve actually really enjoyed going back and forth with everyone and conversing about this. I wish we could keep this up every week.
Timestamp for Joe: around 36:00 minutes into the podcast. Derek said it too. It wasn’t just you. It’s not a big deal. I just didn’t want you to think I was making it up.
I totally understand if you still didn’t like the episode. That’s no problem at all for me. But hopefully a few of us helped you to realize that there was more value in that other plotline than just “shipper stuff.” If you read what some of us shared above you might realize that that stuff wasn’t useless and actually did have a point when it comes to overall character deveopment NOT only for Lois but also for Clark. And since this is a show about Clark Kent, I tend to think that anything that shows growth for him has value.
it was a great podcast stop overanalyzing it
I have to say, I’m a bit surprised (and also not surprised at all) at the intensity of the Lois/Clark debate that’s sprung up, primarily because to me, it was such a small part of the episode. But it’s undoubtedly a passionate point for a lot of people, and a definite draw for a good part of the audience. I’ll admit, that was one of my reasons for really getting back into this season, because I enjoy the teasing and interplay between the pair. But I really liked this episode, primarily because I like anything that is vaguely creepy, but also for Zod. That said, I really am thankful for the people at the SHOE podcast. I’m a new listener, and I have to really stress how lucky it is that there are fans, who enjoy the show as much as these guys do. I’ve been really frustrated in some avenues of Smallville fandom where the bulk of replies are centered on negative comments, or other places where they only seem to address the shipping aspects of an episode. It’s a nice change to be able to watch an episode, be excited and enjoy it, and be able to hear comments from people who try to (a) talk about all the scenes and (b) you can truly tell still love the series, even when an episode isn’t necessarily their favorite.
There was one point I did want to mention that I’ve seen a lot of people bring up, and that’s about why did Clark save Zod with his blood and not Jor-El. I know some people think this is sloppy writing, but I don’t actually really think it is in this case. Not long before Clark goes to an injured Zod’s side, he passes and feels the effects of the Kryptonite (nails? I’m not sure what they were). It makes sense that because this experience was more freshly situated in his mind that he’d be more likely to think of using Kryptonite to pierce his skin and use his blood on Zod. More so, in an intense and stressful situation like with his father, while it’s lovely to think we have time to consider all possibilities and solutions, we don’t. A lot of times, they come to us way after the fact. Doesn’t it make sense that when Clark was with Jor-El dying that it just didn’t strike him at the time because he was so overwhelmed at meeting his “father” and losing him too? But he’s had ages afterward since to consider how he might have saved his father. It’s not impossible the idea didn’t hit him after the fact, and in time, for Zod. Even if that didn’t happen, I still think it’s entirely believable that sometimes a solution hits us, and other times it may not. And while idealistically, we’d get the right answer for the times most important to us, that’s not how life works.
That said, I admit I did find the blood cure a bit contrived, only because so much of the season has been spent on the Kandorians making great efforts at trying to discover how to regain their powers. And then the solution turned out to be oh so easy. My other criticism would actually be for why Zod seemed to take a step toward Chisholm, who had a gun. That just seemed to be a stupid move and asking to be shot. I’ve heard some people say it’s while he turns around, but when I watch the scene, it definitely looks like he’s stepping toward him – to what end? He had no powers. It would have made more sense to me, if Zod attempted to manipulate him through things he said, in order to get him to back down, though still possibly getting shot in the end. Maybe they just didn’t have time.
Also, as much as I loved (and still love) the sequence of Zod going undercover as a reporter, I had to laugh that this always seems to require a pair of glasses. I get it in the case of Clark as being a nod to his future disguise, but it was almost gratuitous to put them on Zod. Not that I’m really complaining because I thought he looked great with them on.
@Joanna Thank goodness someone else is bringing up how brilliant Callum Blue is. While I understand some of the criticism he gets, I think he’s probably one of the best actors on the show. I’ve seen him in a few other series (As If, Dead Like Me) and the presence and intensity and creepiness he brings to Zod is definitely unique to the role, and starkly different from other parts he’s played. To me, that versatility is a sign of a good actor, and I find it disheartening when others criticize him rather viciously. I do, however, understand their issues with his at times mumbly diction at times (oddly enough this is the only part I’ve noticed it) , and I partly understand why they may not like his interpretation of Zod. (I actually didn’t particularly care for it either at first because it was so different from how I imagined Zod, but once he started donning suits and being more underhanded and manipulative, I was completely won over). It certainly doesn’t make him a bad actor, and I agree that all those touches of being in people’s face and really invading their space is deliberate, and I personally think it works.
This reply is already too long, and I come off as a bit of a Zod fanatic. Alas. But I admit, I’m glad Zod has his powers, and I absolutely dread the day he’s written off the show. Because I like his character so much now, I know I’ll be upset when he’s finally defeated.
Waitasec…did someone (Jen) slip a Twilight reference in here? THAT’S IT!!!! NOW I’M MAD!!!!
Team Edward forever
I agree with Steve. Twilight has no place in the House of El.
I do not agree with Steve.
Pendragon, I don’t think you’re the only one who loves Callum Blue. I’ve come to think of him as the Michael Emerson of Smallville. (Not sure if you’re a LOST fan or not.) He just has that crazy delivery where you don’t know if he’s good or bad but you’re fascinated either way.
Steve…are you anti-twilight? Even as a guilty pleasure? haha. I’ll totally admit that it’s completely awful and ridiculously overdramatic. But it’s kind of awesome in a really bad way. You think Smallville fans are intense. Try telling a rabid TWilight fan that you are either for or against Edward or Jacob or that ::gasp:: you think they’re probably both bad boyfriend choices. They’ll rip your head off. It makes Smallville fandom look tame. (It’s good that something out there does.)
Case, I think everyone here agrees that it was a great podcast and that we love the ShoE guys. There’s nothing wrong with sharing opinions and going back and forth.
@MJ Oh, I hardly thought I was the only fan of Callum Blue. I mean, I think Derek in one of the podcast praised him (which was lovely to hear). But the majority of fans I’ve read comments from are often far more eager to discuss the Lois and Clark or even Chloe and Oliver subject matter. And yes! I do in fact watch Lost. Speaking of Michael Emerson, how freaking amazing was he in this past episode. Probably my favourite episode ever.
@Steve I applaud your distaste for Twilight.
@MJ: Again, can I just say how much I enjoy reading your posts? (maybe because I’m also a literature major ;) You know I decided to write my thoughts regarding the so called Persuasion “shipper moments”, which by some were considered as less significant than the more “action” packed sequences – but then I read your posts, and I was really surprised because it seemed to me that you were reading my thoughts. “MJ, Can you read my mind?”- hehehe :)
I agree that Clark’s character development can be easily overlooked if you categorize all of Clark/Lois scenes as “shipper stuff” and you don’t pay attention to them. But hey, people watch Smallville for different reasons. I understand why some people don’t pay close attention to Clois stuff. You know, my brother (for example) really likes Clark and Lois interaction – but he doesn’t analyze their scenes, he just watches them (and that’s one way to watch Smallville – don’t overanalyze it), which is why when I later discuss Smallville’s episodes with my brother, we often disagree on several issues.
I’ll give you an example from last year. In Hex we learnt that Clark framed Lois’s rules of reporting and was hiding them from her in his drawer. I’ll quote my brother’s thoughts on it: “hahaha, funny, really funny” – and that’s all! I was so surprised by his reaction, because for me the framing of Lois’s rules was a very subtle metaphor of Clark’s feelings for her, and not just “a funny act”, which is not very significant. I strongly believed that there was a deeper meaning in Clark’s behaviour. Why was it so obvious to me? Time for a personal story… In college I had a crush on this guy, who was also my friend (he didn’t know about my feelings, because I was really good at hiding them from him). One day I asked him to write me his e-mail address on a piece of paper (he was going to send me some materials for my classes). And what did I do with the small piece of paper with his handwriting? No, no, I didn’t frame it, but…I immediately put it into my drawer, subconsciously hiding it even from myself (for me this small, seemingly “insignificant” piece of paper was a precious treasure).
I know it’s a pathetic example ;) – but it’s so real! And when I learnt that Clark did almost the same thing with Lois’s rules – I just knew he was hiding his feeling for her…And, in all honesty, I thought only girls did such things (well, Clark’s behaviour managed to challenge my stereotype thinking ;).
@ pendragon @MJ: it’s great to know that I’m not the only person who enjoys Callum’s acting!
@Natasha: I was a little bit confused about that but after reading your explanation, I came to conclusion that maybe my stance on Clark’s flying and Derek’s are not so different after all.
@ Joanna: I’m glad I made at least a little bit of sense because I might have confused myself somewhere in there.
In other news, I think the Lois/Zod scenes were some of my favorites from the episode because it revealed a lot about Lois, Zod, and Clark who wasn’t even in the scene.
@Joanna Oh I think Callums acting is great. I love how he portrays ZOD. He really gives dimension to the character. But now that Zod has his power I feel Zods attitude is going to completely change. Can’t Wait. 4-2-10
@Steve Agree Twilight SUCKS and does not belong on this SHOE but maybe stuck under someone shoe.
@PenDragon….I almost teared up this week on LOST. I find Ben to be such an incredible character. I feel like I’ve been rooting for him to find his way back to being a hero (since we know he had such a sad childhood). That scene between Ben and Illana was heartbreaking. I hope that from this point on Ben is on the good side. I also really want him to reuite with the REAL Locke at some point. I almost feel like they have a Clark/Lex bond in that they hate each other but they also love each other in a really twisted way.
I think Callum is awesome. Yes, Zod is totally over the top and manic and overdramatic but I think that’s the point. He’s such an egotistical deranged person. He’s not all bad but he’s not good either. I think he just really loves getting in people’s faces and watching them squirm. He’s a different kind of villian than someone like Lex. More of a snake in the grass. But I really have no complaints about any of the acting on the show right now. I think everyone is hitting their roles out of the park. Cassidy Freeman is one of my favorite people in the world. I adore her. I can’t stand Chloe right now BUT that’s because Allison Mack is doing such a good job of making me hate her. So I give Allison the props because I think I’m supposed to be pissed at her right now. Justin is effortlessly charming and funny. Erica Durance has taken a role that Al and Miles never took the time to really develop too deeply in the early days and has become, in my opinion, the quintenessial and most likable Lois Lane. She manages to be funny, sexy and have the capacity to break my heart all in one scene. Tom Welling is just….there are no words. He’s Superman. His version of Clark KEnt is so layered and so complex. He’s humble and gentle and strong and funny. I love him. I’m loving all the actors and all the storylines on the show right now.
@MJ I’ve always enjoyed Ben. Even when you get angry at the things he does, he’s just such an incredibly intriguing character. But yes, his speech with Iliana was amazing, talking about his clinging to power and the sacrifice of Alex (and that line “he’s the only one who’ll have me” and her reply), and so lovely, that in a way, he got his second chance in the flash-sideways/AU (or whatever they call them these days). Oh, I’m so glad you brought up Locke. Locke was my other favourite on the show. That whole section where the fake-Locke was talking about his last thought being “I don’t understand” just broke me utterly. As much as I’m glad the actor got to stay on as this other incarnation of Jacob’s nemesis, I miss real Locke and I want good things for him.
Regarding Zod, I think in an interview Callum Blue said he did want to play him a bit manic and less controlled/collected compared to his future General self. So it’s very cool that that’s coming across. I actually don’t personally find him that over the top, but I definitely see that more manic response to things when they don’t quite go his way. That said, Smallville does a good job of making me like their villains (Lionel, Lex, Tess, I’ve really enjoyed them all). My goodness, Cassidy is lovely. I just love her expressions and that little eyebrow arch she does. Her scenes with Zod are probably my favourite ones, just because I really dig when characters push each other and try to constantly outsmart each other.
Now Allison Mack, I do like her, and think she’s doing a great job with Chloe. She can be so incredibly adorable, and she really is excellent at delivering her exposition. But I’ll admit I haven’t always been the biggest fan of Chloe due to how she handled her feelings for Clark. It wasn’t until she discovered Clark’s powers and sort of moved away from her role as the friend with the unrequited crush that I could really enjoy her fully again. Her friendship with Clark was great, and seeing her relationship with Jimmy and how much she loved him, which makes me incredibly sad this season because her connection with Clark has suffered so much since then. I really hope they are able to recover at some point before the end of this season, especially if Allison Mack is still planning on leaving. Another thing I really wish the writers would do, and had already done, was show Chloe morning over Jimmy. I feel like we haven’t seen this really in S9, and I sometimes forget she’s lost a husband recently.
Anyhow, I’m incredibly excited about these last few episodes, but nervous too because this is probably my favourite season so far and don’t want that to change.
Seriously, where have you guys been all my life! It is very good to know that SO many other people are passionate about Smallville too.
@ Jess: Yeah, we sometimes get downright Aristotelian over this show.
I know this is sorty of a random question but I’m watching old Smallville episodes to get me through the break and a thought emerged:
Whatever happened to Lois’ cigarette/nicotine addiction?!
It was introduced (along with Lois) in CRUSADE but, never mentioned again. Hmmm *thoughtfully strokes non-existant beard*
I don’t remember it being mentioned again. She probably just switched from nicorette to regular gum addiction. Or it probably went the same way as her allergy of dogs/Shelby ;).
Hahaha, I’m rewatching old SV eps as well but I’m really going back and am rewatching Lineage, Talisman, Rosetta and of course Perry just to get geared up for Hostage ;).
yeah, i’m just completely rewatching and am already in season 4-the most hilarious season, in my opinion.
devoted (crazy chloe), transference (this is just hecka good acting), spell (clark’s crazy “dancing”), spirit (oh, martha, martha), blank (clark being…well, clark) and Commencement (the best season finale ever). Plus who can forget all the awesome Clois banter in between?
And don’t forget the raining anvil episode Commencement. Those were some really funny moments but I still think the tractor falling from the sky in front of Perry has got to be one of the funniest moments on SV but quickly followed by Clark’s dorothy dance.
raining anvils? refreshmy memory, please.
oh and the most hilarious episode EVER is w/out a single doubt in my mind…HEAT.
Sorry meant dorky dance. Stupid smart type
“Guy wearing a red cape.” “Hallucinating would be imaging Clark Kent going off to the big city and making a mark in the world. ” “With my luck i’ll end up across the desk from the most bumbling reporter on the masthead.”
oh yeah. classic. i love those little ironic moments the writers drop here and there. my personal favorite was in SIREN when Clark and Ollie are talking on the DP roof. Clark tells Ollie he’s sorry he and Lois broke up (or didn’t get back together is more like it) after her finding out he’s the GA.
C: “Maybe she’ll get used to the whole dual identity thing someday.”
O: “Yeah? Like when the Earth splits open and time ticks backwards? I don’e think so.”
Foreshadowing AND a Superman movie reference…totally epic geekwood.
I was almost spoiled for LOST!!! I’m just starting Season 5…. I saw “Ben” “Lost” and thankfully I stopped reading. Not the place I would have expected it.
The comments have replaced the forums, lol. I love it.